Realtors are feeding listings everywhere August 21, 2007
Zoomf, a clever British real estate search site, overestimates the eagerness of American real estate agents to post their listings on other sites (emphasis mine):
If you look at the US market, listing your properties in as many places as possible is firmly engraved as part of every agents mindset. US agents are blogging, using social networks, feeding listings everywhere, understanding search engines and promoting their visibility where it makes sense. Getting lawyers involved in copyright issues regarding listings is nowhere to be found.
Hahahahahaha! If only! The only reason Estately has 49,051 properties listed for sale in Western Washington (as of this afternoon) is because we are a member of the North West MLS. If you compare that with any of our non-MLS competitors (Zillow and Trulia are the most successful of the bunch) - those who depend on the US agent’s eagerness to promote listings - you will find significantly less than half as many properties for sale in the same area. Our less scrupulous competitors have tried scraping MLS-based sites only to have their listings pulled (for threat of lawsuit).
I’ll tell ya, if listings were so happily distributed, life would be easier for our little startup. No complying with MLS rules (only one violation so far!), no state-by-state growth plan. We’d go national tomorrow. But we can’t because the only definitive sources for home listings are the hundreds of MLSes around the nation.
I would argue universal distribution of listings is a good thing and that most arguments against universal distribution (most not all) are just disguising mediocre real estate agents’ fear of an open industry where consumers make fully informed decisions about buying and selling real estate. If I were selling my home, I’d ask my agent if my house was going to be advertised on the two biggies at the very least: on the MLS and on Craigslist. Then, if you’re ambitious, see if they were going to buy some Google Adwords to promote the property. But before that, I’d make sure the simple description of my house was great and that the 15 photos were perfect - the basics are the most important! Most other sites are used by home buyers in conjunction with MLS sites like ours (and Windermere and RCG) along with Craigslist for for sale by owner listings, so they aren’t as important.
Check out these related posts:
- Photos are worth 1,000 words (and a lot of money too)
- Estately True Areas: Search Beyond the Box
- Redfin is missing 20% of Listings?
Article Tags>> distributed | estately | listings
- Posted in : General Real Estate
- Author : Galen
Comments»
I’ve tried posting our listings to all of the “other” sites, but there are just too many! And it takes so much time to submit them and then I wonder, who is really going to see this? Am I really going to get a buyer from this? At the end of the day, it just doesn’t seem worth my time. So we stick with the NWMLS (obviously), craigslist and we also do googlebase.
Nickie,
Wow, just goes to show that you really aren’t getting a better deal by using a real estate agent. Why would I pay 3% to have a real estate agent -not- do things I could do myself. With the average home price in the $400s you stand to make around $12k when it sells, but it isn’t worth the extra few hours it would take to get the word out?
We all know that it may not be beneficial, but it always makes the client feel better if they know their house is all over the internet. I use vFlyer.com to get my listings out there. They automatically post them on Oodle, Edgieo, Google Base, Vast, PropSmart and Trulia. vFlyer also gives you the html layout to copy/paste into Craigslist, eBay and BackPage. It really doesn’t get much easier than that.
Joel, I really don’t think submitting your listing to Oodle is the extra thing that is going to get it sold. Seriously - people look for properties in the MLS and on Craigslist.
Good agents (and don’t get me wrong - most aren’t) do a lot more than submit your listing to a bunch of websites. Staging, photos and local marketing are going to sell your house.
I’m with you Galen - I think agents should post their listings to as many different sites as possible so as to get the most possible exposure for their listings.
Regarding companies that syndicate listings - I’ve heard great things about both Point2 and vFlyer (as Jay said).
Hi Galen,
I met you at Connect SF. I had lunch with you at Ardell et al at the cafe near the Palace Hotel. I agree that agents need to list properties on all of the big sites that are out there. The MLS is only one tool we have to market properties. There are so many other sites out there, some of which were listed in above comments. To gain maximum exposure for our sellers, we need to go where the buyers are, we need to have our listings posted where the buyers are looking.
Your thoughts in the above comment are the key. Sellers should hire us because we give them great staging advice, professional photos and a strong market presence. Homes should only be listed for sale when all of this is ready to go for a seller. The home should be dressed up and the marketing should be ready to go. Nothing makes me more crazy than when I go to a new listing and the marketing is non-existent. It’s such a disservice to the seller. The first couple of days are the most important when a listing is fresh and new. As agents our first responsibility when we go to the market is to generate the excitement for our sellers.
Debra, you nailed it. People are putting the cart before the horse when they get excited about listing a house on the 20th most popular site but they haven’t done the basics of getting the house in best shape. Nothing (NOTHING!) sells a home better than being genuinely ready for market and priced correctly (not too high, not too low) the day it is listed. Mess up those first 3 days in the MLS and you’re in trouble.
I must say that I hate getting spam from email flyer bulk distribution companies.
“Staging, photos and local marketing are going to sell your house.”
That still hardly sounds like 12 grand worth of work. That’s a good 2 months salary, so do I get my agent’s full undivided attention for the equivalent of 2 whole months (approx. 320 hours)? I can pay a professional photographer a few hundred dollars to take photos. How long does staging take? A day? A few days maybe at worst. So what’s left? Local marketing? What does a good agent do for local marketing other than put the listing on MLS and Craigslist? This doesn’t really sound like “a lot more” to me. Or at least it doesn’t sound like 12 grand more.
Great comments on this topic and glad to have sparked some discussion. In the UK market, we definitely preach the idea that you have to measure the audience you receive from the web, including any listing service, search engine or other. The UK doesn’t have an MLS system, it is much less regulated and the idea of web analytics is far behind the US (from what I’ve seen here in London). So we have different challenges but the same arguments ring true. List your property in front of valuable audiences. Make sure you understand what you get for your effort to list and market. It’s not just quantity of traffic but quality. And please post more than 1 picture of the property! Probably my biggest pet peeve as an expat of the USA where agents would never commit such a disservice. At least I’d hope not
Good points Joel. A couple of thoughts: you agent is not guaranteed that much money and a fair number of properties don’t sell. Not many agents do it, but they should discount for people who pay up front. Also, staging takes some time, but in many cases they’re bringing in furniture and stuff from another house.
The tough answer is that many agents can’t justify 3%, particularly for someone like you who is willing to do a lot of the work on your own. They aren’t worth it. It sounds like you’ve worked with an agent who isn’t. There are agents who are worth it though. Like they know so knowledgeable that they give you an edge every step of the way, which translates into you selling your home sooner and for a higher price.
If you interview a couple of great agents (not mediocre!) next time you sell, they should be able to satisfactorily answer the “what do I receive for 3%” question. If they don’t, they should offer you a discount or you should use someone else.
Mike, please see http://www.reagentinct.com/category/bad-mls-photo-of-the-day/ to see just how bad some photos are here.
Joel,
Days on Market are increasing every month so the 320 hours are very tangible these days. You are also calculating an agent only working for $37 an hour.
Galen,
It was nice meeting you finally. I feel that the public tend to stick at websites that have all the listings not just a handful. The hit and miss sites like trulia, zillow and craigslist just reassure the consumers that when they are on a broker site with all the listings they don’t need to go anywhere else. Even a site like r-fin is of better service to the public then an aggregator site looking to sell ad space. I always find it interesting that people will provide data to a site that’s whole purpose is to get them to go to someone else’s site.
Take for example this listing on zillow:
http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=49162834
They are directing traffic to (at the time I viewed the listing):
USAA
DirectTV
BofA
Lending Tree (who is a lead seller to agents)
Roselyn Do (the agent)
Sydney Financial Group
If they are not successful in redirecting traffic they can not make money (Now that’s the bottom line).
Part of the problem with agent compensation is the significantly low barrier to obtain a license. A box of cabbage can pass the licensing exam. In a hot market, people believe that real estate sales is easy and fast money. They compare the salary of their current job to the real estate commissions and assume they can do better than the average agent. Now, the market is flooded with a supply of agents. The agents are competing for a finite number of transactions. To compete they spend more time on marketing themselves and more money on marketing themselves to secure the client. And, they may have to discount their compensation to complete the transaction. The average agent compensation is the same across the nation after adjustments for cost of living, inflation, cost of doing business, etc. High appreciating markets have more agents completing fewer high commission transactions and low appreciating markets have fewer agents completing more lower commission transactions. Agents charge what they do to cover their costs and hopefully make a little money. The average agent in Wichita, KS makes about the same as the average agent in SF, CA. (1)
Mediocre agents are a commodity. Everybody knows half a dozen agents! Mediocre agents do not differentiate themselves with knowledge, experience, skill, education, service level, branding etc. How many of those agents would you actually hire? You would probably feel comfortable hiring just a few. With a higher barrier to entry into the industry, compensation would not be set. Agent compensation would be the equilibrium price at the intersection of supply and demand based on their knowledge, experience, skill, education, service level, client needs, etc. Mediocre agents will charge what the market deems a fair price for mediocre representation. Great agents will continue to charge more regardless of the barrier to entry into the industry or the market conditions because they provide value. Great agents can cherry pick clients and turn away unwanted clients. Discount brokers will have a place in the market. Limited service brokers will have a place in the market.
When I was in business school a long long time ago, 80% of small business failed the first year. 80% of the survivors failed in the next four years. The failure rate among new agents is quite high. 90% will fail the first year. 90% of the survivors will fail the second year. The average first year agent won’t sell a house in the first 3-6 months. The average agent sells 3-5 houses a year.
National Association of Realtors average income before expenses.
2002 $41,600
2004 $38,300
2005 $13,000
I think I read that the average the Realtor has higher income than non Realtor real estate agents.
Very few agents are employees, the expenses below need to be deducted from the income above.
-State license fees. $100-200 year.
-MLS membership fees. $400-1000 year
-Continuing education expenses. $500-$2000 year
-Professional association dues. $500-$2000 year
-Advertising and marketing costs and materials such as online ads, brochures, handouts, mailings (and postage), yard signs, flyers and business card. $300-$5000 month
-Technology expenses such as cell phones, PDA, laptop/desktop computer, website, home-office land line, fax machine, scanner, digital camera, global positioning system (GPS), and e-mail service. $200-$1000 month
-Franchise fees. $100-$300 month
-Fees for company-generated leads. cost?
-Desk fees and other office use costs. $200-500 month
-Vehicle expenses, including purchase or lease, maintenance, and gasoline. $100-$1000 month
-Premiums for errors and omissions or professional liability insurance. Varies greatly.
-Premiums for health insurance. $125-$400 month
-Costs associated with federal and state regulatory compliance requirements such as Do-Not-Call, Do-Not-Fax, CAN SPAM and RESPA have to buy signs, business cards. They may mail postcards $500-2000 a month. They have desk fees $500-$1500 month.
-New and less productive agents typically split a higher percentage of their commission with their broker.
A great agent won’t have to justify their compensation to you. When you interview them the great agent will demonstrate their value. The 80/20 rule doesn’t apply to real estate. It is closer to 90/10 with the flood of new agents in hot markets. The 10% of great agents will prosper in any market. The failure rate of a transaction when one party or both parties is unrepresented is high. The reasons vary and include poor negotiation, failure to understand the law and the contract requirements and legal disclosures, failure to understand the market dynamic and conditions, failure to market properly. Unrepresented sellers sell for a price on average of 10 percent below FMV. Unrepresented seller over prices the property and the property sits on the market for a long time. The time on market projects a stigma of something wrong with the property resulting in a final sale price discounted to below the FMV. Unrepresented sellers under price resulting in a sale price less than FMV. Sellers with “competent representation” sell on average for a price within +/-3 percent of the FMV within the average days on market for the area.
A few years ago, WA had about 62,000 licensed agents. What is interesting about that number is WA is one of a few states that have more inactive agents than active agents. 34,000 in active and 28,000 active.
(1) Chang-Tai Hsieh and Enrico Moretti. “Can free entry be inefficient? Fixed commissions and social waste in the real estate industry”. The Journal of Political Economy. October 2003.
Cheers,
Michael P. Lindekugel
Financial Analyst
RE/MAX Commercial
Team Reba - RE/MAX Metro Realty, Inc
Our marketing plan takes into account multiple sites to put the client’s property when it is for sale. One of the ways that we choose the sites we’ll use is by tracking what sites are getting the most hits nationally. The number one place is the MLS and it is also the most accurate in terms of making sure that the status of the listing is correct. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had buyer clients call or email me about a listing they saw somewhere else that wasn’t even still available. This is part of the problem of posting willy-nillly - the agent needs to make sure and follow up on each and every site to make sure status is changed.
Our minimum list includes (but isn’t limited to) MLS, Realtor.com, RE/MAX’s national site, our local RE/MAX site, our team website, Zillow, Seattle Times (print and online) and Craigslist. We also use all of our blogs to post listings and to provide other commentary about the home that we can’t get out otherwise due to character limits on other sites.
I find it interesting (but not surprising- I’ve seen this movie rerun repeatedly) that your article has evolved into a commissions debate. To pull this all together, it seems intriguing that the British article notes that American Realtors are overeager about publishing listings anywhere they will stick, but the implication is that this approach is stupid because it’s fruitless effort.
Then, take others’ comments about Realtors not earning a commission because they don’t list homes in enough places or do enough to merit a commission. Together, you have a dichotomy of the commissions debate- Brits say Realtors do too much and it’s laughable; locals say Realtors don’t do enough and they want to keep the money in their pocket.
As RealtorGenius said last week, Realtors have been in Beta for over 100 years. All Realtors should be seeking more opportunities for exposure, should know how to read their backend to insure their exposure works, and should provide customer service that is unparalleled. I believe that most readers of Rain City are in search of this excellence, so Joel is preaching to the wrong group… he needs to take it up with Billy Joe Bubba who won’t answer his phone or turn on a computer- not bloggers in search of honing their skills.
Lani Anglin
RERevealed.com
Great comment Michael! One of our goals with Estately Agent Match is to let great agents spend more time doing what they do well - providing service with clients - and less time looking for new clients. If we are successful, great agents will have more business and mediocre agents will have less.
Galen, I’m curious to know how you “qualify” each agent and brokerage you interview for the site. I’ve seen so many similar versions of this type of format that I’ve become immune to them. We get constant calls and emails from agencies that want to state that they want us on their “special list of qualified agents” and when I start asking questions it basically boils down to them wanting to know if I can pay the fees to be on the site and as long as I have a license and haven’t been busted for a fine or ethics complaint “I’m good to go!” What makes this site any different?
Reba, I posted about that recently: http://blog.estately.com/2007/08/13/estately-agents-versus-normal-agents/
It’s the same for me, but in reverse: we get a lot of emails from new or unqualified agents asking to work with our clients. We recommend agents we have personally interviewed - that means me or my co-founder Doug. We ask things like how many homes / condos do they sell in an area every year, what’s their approach to working with clients, who do they like working with. Recommendations for agents come from all over - my favorites are from people who are using our site who can’t say enough great things about their agents. Can’t beat that!
We ask for less than the industry standard for referral fees and we don’t have any signup or monthly fees, so nearly every agent we’ve invited to work with us has signed on. We don’t have a sales person because we don’t need one. Great agents like working with our clients, so we have no churn.
Mike,
I thought you did a great job in spelling out what agents do and what our cost are to market properties for our clients. I think many of the pulblic forget that we actually pay for many things when we market properties. Our marketing and expertise comes from years of knowing what to do and how to do it.
Joel, let me clarify what I meant by “staging” in my earlier comments. Staging is not just putting furniture in a home before it is listed. Staging involves an evaluation of the condition of the property well before it is listed. Recommendations are then made to a seller to before it is listed. Homes need to be in the best possible condition before going on the market. As Realtors, we know the competition, and we know what buyers expect. It is our obligation to tell sellers what needs to be done, so the home will sell in a reasonable time and for the seller to make the most amount of money. We tell our clients what needs to be done and what does NOT need to be done. We advise them to spend money that is only necessary to bring them the most money in a sale. Lat year, one client wanted to fix a large crack in the driveway before listing their home. It would have cost a few thousand dollars to redo the driveway.We advised them not to do so. It was a waste of money. However, we did advise them to put the money towards carpet replacement and countertops in bathrooms.
Here is more about what I mean with staging: My business partner and I are putting two properties on the market in Kirkland in September. One of the sellers is already out of the area. Angie, my business partner, and I have made about 10 visits to one of the homes and about 4 to the other, all in the last two weeks. We have met no less than 6 painters, 3 garage door people, one carpet person, and a general contractor. WHY? Because we recognize the costs involved and want to find good people who will do the work for the best price. Our first painter contact charged $6,000 more than the painter who ultimately won the job. A new garage door will be installed for $1000 less than the original bid. We want to get the seller the best values. We are saving the seller $7000 by having the work done for less money than if we had gone with the first bids. The buyers who buy on the Eastside are very busy people who do not have time to “fix” up homes when they buy. Couple that with increased competition on the market place, the homes that show the best sell for the most. Pretty simple.
So when I talk about staging it’s a lot more than putting furniture in a home. It’s often the process that helps a seller make the most money and not languish on the market.
PLACES THAT WILL POST YOUR LISTINGS TO MULTIPLE SITES
Postlets.com will publish your listing on several websites, including, but not limited to realtor.com, google, trulia…etc.
Does anyone know of any other sites / engines that will post listings on multiple sites?
Thanks,
Jodi Summers
http://www.santamonicapropertyblog.com/
Posting your listings across the Internet is a great idea. The thought is: more exposure leads to more touches which generates more leads and subsequent sales.
But I’m a firm believer that you could generate more leads by managing an effective Craigslist advertising campaign. By effective I mean reposting on a frequent basis and optimizing ads to deliver leads.
I think a lot of agents don’t incorporate their primary marketing objective of driving leads into their online marketing plans. They get too caught up in traffic.
I am currently conducting a survey (only 5 questions) that will help quantify the effectiveness of Craigslist. Please participate in the survey by clicking the link below.
Survey: The Effectiveness of Real Estate Classified Ads on Craigslist
Troy, I agree for agents and for home sellers alike. People who are selling their home would do best to focus their energy on the MLS and Craigslist - those two places are where everyone is looking for homes.
[...] A Fistful of Feeds September 15, 2007 Cue up the Ennio Morricone music and head for the hills! There’s been some recent talking among the town folk, about the feeding frenzy that’s happening out there on the wild web of the west. Let’s just say San Miguel will never be the same once the schema with no XSD enters town. [...]
I don’t think it’s as simple as many of you are making it out to be. Saving $12k and putting your home on CL wouldn’t even qualitfy as bare minimum. Among many other things, a real estae agent is there to protect the buy/seller from being taken advantage of. How many people have the time to verse themeselves in real estate law? There is so much to know, and if your a first time buyer, which 36% of home buyers are, who you choose as an agent will be the most important thing you do when selling/buying your home.
Galen - My only concern for universal distribution is maintaining control over listing accuracy, and ensuring that data is current. But I am with you, this is a direction we have to go towards. It doesn’t make any sense NOT too!