Popcorn ceiling removal October 24, 2006
I really would like as much info as anyone may have about removing popcorn ceilings. Whomever invented those things should be drawn and quartered. Also called “cottage cheese” ceilings. I think they look more like large curd cottage cheese than popcorn.
1) How have you tested for asbestos before removing?
2) Any step by steps of the process appreciated
3) If anyone in the Seattle area has had them professionally removed, who did it and can you break down the cost per square foot? I assume without asbestos is cheaper to remove than with asbestos. Is there a cost per square foot?
Anyone know why they were popular? Anyone still like them, and if so, why?
Sphere: Related Content- Posted in : General Real Estate
- Author : ARDELL
Comments»
They were popular because they made “finishing” a ceiling a piece of cake. I remember spraying a 20×30 living room, with my father in the 70’s, in about an hour.
Ive had decent luck with wet (garden sprayer), scrape (12″ drywall knife), repeat. This was, of course, for the non-asbestos stuff.
Tom,
How did you know it wasn’t asbestos? Seems these days most say “might be” asbestos. I really would like to test them all at the time we are writing a contract. Does anyone know a quick service lab in the Seattle area where I could take a scraping? Or a quick turn around mail away lab?
Pacific Rim Environmental
206-244-8965
FAX
206-244-9096
6510 Southcenter Blvd Suite 4, Tukwila, WA 98188
Info: pre@pacrimenv.com
Sales: jlewis@pacrimenv.com
I used to work here. They should be able to answer any questions and analyze any samples you have. I have been out of the industry for some time and don’t know how the regulations might have changed. Tell Jeff that Mark sent you.
Thanks Mark,
I have a closing with popcorn ceilings at the end of the month. The owner asked which things should be done before he moves in and which can wait until he is ready to sell. He may not live there very long, so we are already getting it ready to sell as he moves in
If it is asbestos, absolutely he should get it done before he moves in. I’ll take a scraping on the day of closing and get it over to Pacific Rim. Seems I have heard of them before, but I’m not sure where or when.
Thanks for the info! I’ll post the results later for others to use as a “how to”.
A few years ago we used a “special” spray, waited a little while, then scraped with a putty knife. Soapy water would probably work too. When it’s wet you aren’t going to get much dust. I don’t remember how we knew, but it wasn’t asbestos.
If the seller is cooperative, see if you can get a small sample to be tested out of a closet ceiling right now. You only need a teaspoon full. If the place was built after 1978, it is fairly unlikely that it is asbestos, but it’s always best to check.
If it is asbestos, he may rethink taking it out. Supposedly if it is not disturbed, it won’t do any harm. I have heard that if it is asbestos, certified HAZMAT crews in “moonsuits” are required. That makes it very expensive!
Vicki
We’ve had some people install dry wall over the popcorn stuff, basically encapsulating it….
More information about asbestos that you might want to know.
http://www.pscleanair.org/regulated/asbestos/default.aspx
This the regulatory agency that covers asbestos in the Seattle area.
Mark
[...] For my mom’s house, popcorn ceiling removal (see the comments). [...]
Have you considered butter and salt, then inviting some friends over?
Assuming you have it tested and there is no asbestos, removing the popcorn is fairly easy. You would just need to be careful not to damage the ceiling in the process; not a big concern, just one to be aware of. You’ll also likely need to do some patching after the popcorn is removed since, as was stated earlier, the main attraction of popcorn for builders is that you can easily finish (i.e. hide) an otherwise unfinished ceiling. One thing is certain–doing it yourself is a lot cheaper than paying someone else.
For those who may not have noticed, John’s link in his name in the comment above goes to a “remove popcorn ceilings” website. Thanks John!
The reason why popcorn ceilings were so popular is that, as has been mentioned, it is a very quick way to finish ceilings and hide the sins of the underlying surface.
My house was built in 1978 and has popcorn ceilings in all of the rooms except kitchen, bath, and laundry rooms. My neighbor’s house was built at the same time by the same builder; he had the popcorn tested when he bought the house and found no asbestos, so it’s a pretty safe bet that mine doesn’t either.
I removed the popcorn from the dining room only as part of a kitchen-dining room remodeling currently in process (by myself). I tried spraying it with water first before scraping, but found that this lifted the fibers in the paper on the drywall (I probably would have had to do a ’skim coat’ of spackle over the entire ceiling). Since I wanted to minimize the rework of the ceiling after popcorn removal, I opted to scrape the popcorn dry. This actually worked pretty well where the material had been sprayed onto the drywall paper, but was difficult in the areas over spackle (along the taped joints). It makes an incredible mess as well, so if you’re thinking about doing this, try to do it before you move in if at all possible. Otherwise, use painter’s plastic on the floor and walls, and then carefully remove the plastic with all of the scrapings trapped inside.
I have no plans to remove the material from any of the other ceilings. I just don’t want to go through the hassle since I already am living in the house, and the ceilings are in good condition and are painted flat white. Neither my wife nor I object to the look of them. If it becomes an issue at the time that I want to sell, I’ll offer any potential buyers a $2-3K discount to cover the cost of removal.
Redmondjp,
Thanks for the practical, hands on advices! Great info with regard to the removal process.
I’m thinking the owner should maybe remove the popcorn, once they determine it is not asbestos. Then have someone come in just to make the ceilings look really good. This way they are only paying for the finish work, and not the removal and cleanup, and they are insuring the best possible finished product at the lowest cost. That’s what I would do.
As to selling the house, credits just don’t work. Whether credits are for popcorn ceilings or rugs or paint, they just don’t work. On average, you will get $10,000 to 5% more for your house if it does not have popcorn ceilings or worn out rugs or it needs painting. The average buyer will discount the house by $10,000, to up to 5% in a buyer’s market, based on what they are seeing, AND take the credit. So offering a credit gets you less than if you didn’t offer a credit.
Buyers always overestimate the cost of change and always charge the buyer for the inconvenience of having to change it. So if it costs $2,500 to change it, they will charge the seller $10,000 off price to do so, not the actual cost of the change out. Based on my experience, buyer estimates to make the change is usuall 4X the actual cost.
Most times they just leave and go buy the house that doesn’t have popcorn ceilings or doesn’t need new carpet or doesn’t need to be painted. They don’t take the credit…and they don’t buy your house at all IF there are other houses on market, in their price range, that are more aesthetically appealing to them.
Buying a house with poporn ceilings, and removing the popcorn ceilings before selling, is a great “value added” way to protect yourself against selling for less than you paid, in an uncertain market.
Thanks for the advice, Ardell.
But here’s another factor which comes into play–if new houses two blocks away from me are selling for $1M (they are), at what point does my 28-year-old rambler (a definite fixer, still having single-pane aluminum windows) on a decent sized lot in a great location (I live 2 mi from MS) become a teardown? Somebody could buy my property (for let’s say $400K), scrape it, build a 4500 sf McMansion (let’s say at a cost of $300K) and put it on the market for $1M.
Not trying to steer this off-topic, but at what point do you decide just to keep the roof from leaking and nothing else? If new buyer is going to scrape it, doesn’t really matter whether it has popcorn ceilings or not! This would be an excellent topic for a separate post, and I’d be really interested in your thoughts on this. There are hundreds if not thousands of older houses just on the Eastside where this same issue comes to bear (west-of-market in Kirkland comes to mind, and now the same thing is happening on Rose Hill).
Excellent topic, and one I am very well versed on. “What makes a house a tear down.”
My partner and one of our agents is off to look at a 60’s house on the Redmond side in one hour for a seller
and I just helped a buyer purchase a similar one in Bellevue. I live in Kirkland (East of Market) next to a “just keep the roof from leaking” house, down the street from a home that wasn’t a “just fix the roof” house.
You are quite right… this is indeed a topic worthy of its own post, if not several posts, as the next five to ten years on the Eastside have a lot to do with these issues. I will write my next post on that topic, so if you have any specific issues you want me to address, other than the ones you just have addressed, feel free to list them now.
[...] You can’t tear them ALL down October 28, 2006 When we were talking about Popcorn Ceilings, Redmondjp asked, “if new houses two blocks away are selling for $1M, at what point does my 28-year-old rambler 2 mi from MS become a teardown? Somebody could buy my property,build a McMansion and put it on the market for $1M…. [...]
You can tell if it is asbestos or not by checking if there are little sparkles in the treatment or whether it is flat. If there are sparkles, it is asbestos.
One thing I have learned from my time in Seattle is that you can make a ton of money off of people who have no idea what dangers are posed by the presence of asbestos in a house. Popcorn ceilings pose practically no danger nor does old asbestos flooring or adhesives. Still the handwringing types want it remediated. And somehow these same people don’t think that charging them $10,000 for the task is not too much.
I agree Rudy, that is why I think it is important to test for asbestos, and I don’t buy the simple sparkle test. How much could it costs to send it to a lab? Then you know when it is not asbestos and you know not to pay exhorbitant fees for the removal.
The removal is not about asbestos, from my point of view. The removal is about houses without popcorn ceilings selling better than those with them. If a seller is looking for top dollar, especially in a more competiive market, getting rid of the popcorn ceilings is probably worth as much if not more than adding granite countertops.
Yes, sparkles or not makes no difference. If you are implying the sparkles are asbestos, asbestos fibres can not be seen. My house has popcorn ceilings and I payed about 150 bucks to have them come and remove it safely (Because if it was asbestos, I didn’t want to stir up the fibres), and test it. Luckily, ours was just essentialy paper pulp and 5% other junk. Plus, our ceiling is sparkly in spots, and look - We are asbestos free. Nothing beats a compotent lab.
Cody,
It only cost you $150 bucks to have it both test AND removed? WOW! Was that one bedroom? Who did you use? “Enquiring Minds Want to KNOW!”
We just moved into a home that was built in 1916 that has about 600 square feet of popcorn ceilings. Oy. We are in the process of deciding whether to have the popcorn removed seeing that we’re not huge fans of the aesthetics. I’ll be taking a sample to:
NVL Laboratories Inc
4708 Aurora Ave N., Seattle, WA
(206) 547-0100
today to get it tested for asbestos. The cost is $30 and the turn around time is 24 hours.
Then we’ll take it from there. Any suggestions for the cheapest way to have it removed it absolutely welcomed.
Best,
Katherine
I went through this process myself last year. There were a few factors that led to the decision to do this. 1. I hate popcorn ceilings, they aesthetically offend me 2. I had skylights put in and had to cut into the ceiling anyway (thus disrupting the asbestos fibers) 3. I hate popcorn ceilings.
Here’s the process I went through:
Step 1: Have ceiling tested. $30 (I took a sample to NVL Labs). I highly recommend doing this step yourself. A friend of mine paid $150 for someone to come out and test it.
Step 2: If not asbestos, consider scraping it yourself (it’s hard work, though. Lowe’s has a great scraping tool that will help. Here’s a great article: http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/shows_wkh/episode/0,2046,DIY_14346_38549,00.html)
Step 3: If asbestos, decide if you want to do it yourself or hire a professional. Warning: if you do it yourself, you’re exposing yourself/home/family/pets, etc to asbestos fibers. PLUS you have to get a permit and dispose of asbestos properly. (See
& for disposal–>http://www.pscleanair.org/regulated/asbestos/disposal.aspx)
Step 4: If you chose an abatement contractor, shop around. Prices vary. Here’s a link to WA state contractors [PDF]: http://www.lni.wa.gov/WISHA/p-ts/Asbestos/AsbestosContractors.pdf.
Prices ran anywhere from $2.50 - $6 a SQFT.
Step 5: I chose a contractor because it’s hard work, messy, risky, and pain in the butt to clean up.
Note: I chose AFJ Commercial Services. They were affordable, efficient and overall wonderful. I had my entire house scraped, except for the bathrooms and kitchen that had no popcorn. It ran me ~$2500. They took care of the permit, did the job, cleaned up and removed the waste.
Step 6: Go away for a couple of days.
Step 7: Decide if you want to hire a drywall professional or do it yourself.
Step 8. If you decide to do it yourself, expect to do a lot of work! You’ll have bare drywall with lots of scrapes in it. Between myself, friends and family, we put in about 80 hours of work in a week (both weekends + every spare moment after work). We worked on about 1000sqft.
Step 8: Patch the drywall and the tops of the walls who got hit by the scrapers. Clean up the seams (popcorn covers up bad seam jobs, you’ll want to do this or end up with lines). Sand. Prime the drywall.
Step 9: Spray texture on the ceilings (or texture them however you want).
Step 10: Paint on your primer (do this. not kidding. I forgot this step and have painted a couple of times, only to still have bad looking areas)
Step 11: Paint on your ceiling and wall paint
DONE!
Thanks Katherine and Stacy for the great info!
I still say do the messy part yourself if it is not asbestos, and let the professional do the finsih work. I see lots of drywall tape lines on the do it yourself jobs After all that money and work, you don’t want to have lines.
This forum has been great! I actually live in MD and am looking to get this popcorn ceiling mess off my otherwise gorgeous cathedral ceilings. Who puts cottage cheese on cathedral ceilings?
Anyway, I have been pondering over doing it myself vs paying someone. My hang ups are:
* Time
* Costs
* The messy factor
* Health (asbestos)
I’m glad I read this posting, because I hadn’t even considered asbestos until then. This is my first night researching, so I might have run across it in my other findings.
For anyone just reading the bottom postings…Johns name (number 11) has a link, in addition to Stacy’s posting (number 23) on how to do it yourself.
Just wanted to express my gratitude for the postings.
The responses have been great! Come back when you are done and tell us what you decided.
I think a lot of homeowners try to bite off more than they can chew by doing too much at once. If your whole house has popcorn ceilings, try doing one room at a time from start to finish.
In my experience with projects, you get much better at it as you go. So take the least important room, like the smallest bedroom, first. A house values most based on the main living areas and master bedroom. So do the other rooms first so that you are better at it by the time you get to the “value” rooms.
Problem is…my vaulted ceiling is the only area in my house that has this popcorn mess. It is the primary area of the house, and is the only place I would have to test.
Ardell,
I’ve been reading along on this post, when I have the free time and thought at some point I would chime in. I don’t really want to post all that I have to say about this subject at this moment…because of the depth of the discussion. So…when I get some free time in the next few weeks…I’ll share my knowledge about the drywall trade and some ideas on removing “Popcorn Ceiling Texture”. I’m just going to post it to my blog at NorthwestLiving.net and then post a link here.
A brief background: My father started in the Plastering trade back in the 1920’s, working in the North Dakota area until around 1945. He came out here to the Tacoma, WA area because Fort Lewis & Mchord military bases were looking for journeyman plaster tradesman to work on a new product called Gypsum. He was one of the first plaster workers to become a drywall finisher in this state.
He worked in the trade along time and taught many finishers the trade, including a couple of his brothers, numerous cousins and his five boys, myself included. My father would have celebrated his 100 birthday this year. My father had my twin brother and I a little late in life. In any event, I will attempt to give you my version of the removal process that a professional would most likely perform.
I’ll say one thing, I still believe this should be left to a professional. Most popcorn lids have about 3-5% asbestos and the rest is cellulose, etc. Once you find out it has some asbestos and decide to remove the popcorn…to be continued….
By the way Rudy…
About the little sparkles, your referring to the glitter that was sometimes put on after all the lids (ceilings) in the house were sprayed with texture (popcorn). My father had a hand held device that he would fill with gold, sliver or etc colored glitter and apply the material to the finshed textured lids while they were still wet. Why the homebuyers liked that stuff…I have no idea. I think I still have that little tool somewhere…smiling!
HI Jerry,
If you write it on your blog, post a link to it here. Would the inexpensive lab test pick up the 5% to 10% asbestos issue? Do the members of your family who deal in this trade, test first? Or do they
“assume” it is asbestos and proceed accordingly?
Ardell,
The lab test is inexpensive and yes, absolutely they would be able to determine the exact content of your sample. By the way…take the sample out of a closet lid, just in case you decide to encapsulate the lids it (painting them) instead of removal by an asbestos abatement contractor.
I’m the youngest member of that era of drwallers. I’m retired and have been a fulltime Realtor up in Bellingham, WA for the last 14 years. I don’t think any of my cousins are in the removal of popcorn business anymore. Most of them, who are still in the trade, are drywall finishers (tapers).
When I was working in the trade…I did remove a lot of the pocorn texture…but got out of that part of the trade once the asbestos abatement contractors took that part of our business over. I did remove several of my own homes after that….but not for clients anymore. Again…I would hire a profesional and the very least…get it tested. Ok no more trade secrets till I post down the road….smiling!
Hey all,
I had the lab test done at NVL labs. It was just a teaspoonful and they found 4% asbestos content. Now I’m going to take Stacy’s (#23) advice and hire AFJ Commercial Services in Seattle to do the work. When I called earlier they quoted me 2.70 per square foot to remove the 605 square feet of *painted* popcorn ceiling.
Tomorrow, I’ll be getting a quote from the plaster folks to see what the cost would be to have them do the follow up work.
If I space posting on this blog and you want to know the outcome, don’t hesitate to email me at kbragdon@seanet.com.
Cheers,
Katherine
Hello all,
I live in Texas, just bought a house built in 1970, and am having my asbestos-infested popcorn ceilings removed this weekend by an abatement contractor. Yay! (did that sound sincere?)
Sounds like I got lucky in my neck of the woods, I’m paying about $1.90 per sq ft. Anyway, when it’s finished I figured I’d just have to do a little patching with joint compound, prime and paint and I’d be on my way. Sounds like it may be more complicated than that if folks here are looking at hiring plaster contractors. Is that really necessary? Does it just depend on exactly how gouged out my ceilings look? Any rough idea on how much THAT costs? I thought the $3300 for the removal was bad enough, I didn’t figure there was more to it for the finish.
Thanks!
Carrie
[...] October 24: Popcorn Ceiling Removal [...]
hello all.
I am a ceiling contractor in texas that removes, retextures and repaints popcorn ceilings, I am liscenced asbestos abatement contractor, you all have common problems that can be remedied inexpensively and quickly by a knowledgable crew. if you have questions I would be happy to help. e-mail me at bigrig864@yahoo.com. one word of advice, if you get a bid from a contractor that is going to remove spray on acoustic texture by “dry
scraping and skimming with mud then retexturing. please run him out of your house and dont let him come back. then e-mail me and I will help you
Hello Everyone,
I too have a house full of cottage cheese. What I am wondering is there a way to paint it?? Maybe that would help. What do you think?
Amber,
I’ve seen them white and I’ve seen them sparkley. Color doesn’t seem to help and I hear they are hard to paint except with a sprayer which can be messy on a ceiling. Not worth the effort, I think. If they contain asbestos and you are knocking the stuff loose when painting, that could be dangerous.
Whatever you do, send a small piece to a lab first and test for asbestos content.
Hi,
We are removing a ceiling currently. The problem is that a 2 X 2 area that I had previously painted over will not easily come off with the basic removal using water. Any ideas or help would be appreciated. We have someone coming in 3 days to redo the ceiling so HELP!
Thanks,
Laura
This has been a very helpful forum. I am in MD and am considering the purchase of a new place that has these types of ceilings. I am NOT prepared to handle this task and won’t fool myself into considering it. Does anyone know of any good contractors in SoMd that you could recommend? Also someone mentioned just replacing new drywall overtop of the old. This seems like there might be a problem with screwing the new sheets onto the studs. But who am I? Any other suggestions would be great! P.S. Tell me why people installed borders along with these ceilings… BOOOOOO
I just had AFJ Commercial Services remove the asbestos/popcorn ceilings in my home; appr. 800 square feet for $2k + tax. It cost me an additional $2k to have the ceilings flat finished, primed and one coat of paint (I purchased the primer and paint). I am very pleased with the results. I did do some comparison shopping and feel I got a nice deal for the work performed. I highly recommend their services.
Hi Stacy,
Thanks for stopping by with that info. Is AFJ local? Do you have any before and after photos you an email me that I can post?
Thanks for giving the cost info. Very helpful. I just left a house with popcorn ceilings. It always amazes me when people do almost a full remodel, and leave the popcorn ceilings.
I live in Shoreline, Washington — just North of Seattle. I tried to take before and after photos but you really can’t capture the popcorn and how bad it looks. We did put an extra coat of ceiling paint on ourselves and we did not have them reattached the light fixtures because we are replacing them. As they will tell you, expect some minor wall damage — they enclosed everything in plastic and in a few spots when the tape was removed some of the wallboard went with it, not a big deal. As was planned, we painted the interior after the popcorn was removed.
Stacy,
Do you know what the word is on school closings in Shoreline? Last I heard they were going to close at least one, but they didn’t know which one.
I just had my ceilings tested for asbestos at Seattle’ Best Asbestos. I did the test myself, took a scraping from a corner and took it to the lab in Lynnwood. It cost me $30 and I had the results in 24 hours. They can do the scraping for you for $175. They found asbestos and recommended I contact Affordable Environmental, Inc. in Mountlake Terrace to get the work done affordable. 206.793.1321 - I am getting a quote from them now. Tell Steve at Seattle’s Best Asbesto I sent you there by indicating promotion code ‘H20′ to get a free gift with testing.
http://www.seattleasbestostest.com/asbestos-at-home7.html
Thanks Katie! Keep us posted.
Do they tell you the “degree” of asbestos, like 4%? Someone in one of the other comments said they would do that. Or is it just a yes or no answer?
Yeah, they told me I had 5% asbestos. Anything above 1% has to be reported.
I received a quote from Affordable Environmental to remove the asbestos on my ceiling by scraping for $3/ sq ft.
I talked to Tony, he has been doing this for years and is very knowledgable. (206) 793-1321. Apparantly it will cost more if the popcorn ceilings have been painted to any degree and if the ceilings are vaulted. My condo has flat ceilings that were never painted, so it was $3/ sq ft. Not too bad.
After they finish, I will have to get a drywall person in to patch the damage done by the scraping and make the ceilings look nice and smooth.
I was quoted that it would take 2 days to do my 525 sq ft condo. The first day they mask everythign off, the second day they scrape and when they are done, you can put all your stuff back. Luckily I haven’t moved in yet and will be getting this done before all my stuff is there.
“Apparantly it will cost more if the popcorn ceilings have been painted to any degree and if the ceilings are vaulted.”
Thanks, Katie. I’m repeating that sentence as I am often asked by sellers if they should paint the popcorn. My answer is always to get rid of it or leave it alone, as painting it will make it harder for the next owner to remove.
Thanks for confirming that, and I’m posting it here for others who are thinking of painting it.
Why are they “done” after it is scraped? Will it be painted?
Anyone needing to have this or any other materials tested at a fair market price is more than welcome to e-mail me with any questions or concerns you have regarding the material. I work for a company specializing in the testing, removal, air monitoring, and clearing the area for re-occupancy. Have a safe and wonderful day.
Thanks to Katie Pederson who took a sample to our laboratory for asbestos testing, and later posted our laboratory information on this board.
Just to give you a little bit more info about us. Seattle Asbestos Test is located in Lynnwood, next to The Biglots, carries NVLAP accreditation by the government, has 20+ years experience, and treats customers great.
There’s a page for Homeowners, and one for Realtors. Thanks for reading
Seattle Asbestos Test, LLC
19711 Scriber Lake Rd. Suite D, Lynnwood, WA 98036
Tel: (425)673-9850
Fax: (425)673-9810
Email: steve@seattleasbestostest.com
Thanks Steve,
The more info consumer’s have to deal with these issues, the better! We appreciate the links, or at least I do.
Katie,
Can I ask how old your condo is? Our house was built in 1978 and has popcorn ceilings throughout the upstairs. It is our first home and we bought the house 7 years ago. At the time the real estate agent reassured us that because the house was built in 1978 we didn’t need to worry about asbestos. We took her at her word. Naive, maybe? We’ve scraped two of the bedroom ceilings ourselves and repainted them. We’re thinking of selling and we’ve been debating on whether or not to get rid of the popcorn in the rest of the rooms. I’d hate to think that we’ve been breathing in asbestos during our remodeling jobs. Especially since we have 2 young children in the home. Is it true if the house was built in 1978 or later it won’t have asbestos in it?
Penny,
Use of asbestos was banned in 1978, but a builder could have had asbestos containing materials he bought previously.
See this link http://www.sbcapcd.org/biz/asbestos.htm
Some good info there, but it’s cheap enough to get a lab test of a sample scraping, so best to do that. Let us know the results.
what about using Polystrene or PVC tiles over the popcornceilings?
I just had my asbesto’s-containing popcorn-ceilings removed. An amazing company did the work for me.
Affordable Environmental (Tony) - 206-793-1321
They had my 675 sq ft apartment done in 2 days. One day for set-up and a second day for the removal. I was quoted $3/sq ft for all areas needing removal. (Kitchen and bath excluded) They were professional and left my place in the same condition as they came. Minus the popcorn ceiling of course. Oh, and they had removed the light fixtures and doors, which would be put up by the drywall repair company. They did little damage, which I was warned could be an issue. I was so pleased when I walked into my condo to find the ceilings in good shape, all they needed was some drywall mud and texture. I have pics of what the ceilings look like after the removal, just email me.
Penny-
I think Ardell answered your question. My condo is from 1976, but structures built after 1978 can ahave asbestos if the builder had supplies that were purchased before that time. They were granted the ability to use the remainder of their stock.
Katie,
Why would you put “texture” when you just removed “texture”? Why not a flat ceiling?
Asbestos,
Hi all, I am Tony with Affordable Environmental,inc. we do asbestos Removal, full demolition and lots of other stuff here in washington state.
I been at it for a tad over twenty years and if you have any Questions about just about anything Environmental give me a call, advice is free.
Thanks Tony!!!
I LOVE this thread…it’s turning into an “Everything you Ever wanted to Now about Popcorn Ceilings” thread.
I think I’ll move it over it up to a new post and incorporate some of the comments. So can you read the comments and highlight anything you agree or disagree with. If you post costs, I’ll include them with the others.
I think some people would like to do it themselves…can they? Is it possible if there is 4% asbestos vs. a higher rate? I think lots of peoople DO do it themselves, but the advice is always that they CAN’T, and that is confusing.
Is anyone know a contractor can do a good job of Popceiling remover in Dallas ?
Thanks.
I don’t, Lily, but I will email Tony up there and see if he can lead you in the right direction. I’ll ask him to post it here if he has any ideas.
Removal costs and rules vary from state to state. what you need to do is check with the local air pollution. some states dont have a local
Air pollution agency so you need to contact your department of ecology.
A few things about Hiring an Abatement contractor. first of all make sure he is certified to remove asbestos. again most states have a department of labor and industries. you can go to that departments website and check to see if the contractor has had any citations and
what they are for. It is a rare contractor that has none.
case in point is Washington state. all contractors here will be inspected at some point by labor and industries. just because they
have a citation because of a out of date program our a ground was broken on one one extension cord does not make them a bad outfit.
But some of the red flags are:
Contractor wont give you references
Contractor has willful citations
both are bad signs.
If you need to talk to me my E-mail is tc@affenv.net or phone
206 793-1321
Tony Chase
Thanks Tony!!! I appreciate your input.
This is a GREAT thread! I think I’ll start similar ones on other types of needed “fixes”. I’m doing one now on how to care for your PNW Rhodies after you move in
This was an interesting read - Any questions that I had in my mind are fully answered. I now know who to go to for testing - And - who to go to for removal. I do not like my popcorn ceiling. It sucks the light right out of the rooms and have been hesitant to do anything about it because of cost concerns and having an occupied home with four children and a dog.
One question: If it comes down to my ceilings having asbestos and I call in the experts to remove it - do I need to take me and my family out of the house. We live in a split-level. Could we stay downstairs while upstairs in being worked on and vice versa?
Thanks for ALL of the GREAT info.
[...] This tells me that unless visitors are coming through the front-page, they are almost definitely going to articles that one of us wrote long-ago. And when you look at the top posts, who would have guessed that articles about removing popcorn ceiling, serendipitous advice for people moving to Seattle, or the closure of a local mortgage company would be some of the top drivers months (if not years!) after they were written. [...]
I am interested in popcorn ceiling removal too. Anyone know of a reputable company in the Ft. Lauderdale/Miami Florida area?
Has anyone ever used American Environmental Construction to remove their popcorn ceilings and if so how pleased were you with the work?
Thanks
Popcorn ceilings are pretty easy to remove - just messy.
Remember:
1. Test for Asbestos by taking a small piece to a lab ($35) response in 24 hrs.
2. Damp the ceiling down a small area at a time to keep dust down.
3. DO NOT over wet the ceiling as this will damage the sheet rock that the popcorn is fixed to.
3. Use a 8″ or bigger spackle blade.
4. Scape off in clean motions do not “jab” at the ceiling etc.
and were a face mask………………..
after reading this blog a few days ago…
As suggested the was popcorn tested… 1% asbestos…
apt was built in 1963. Downtown Edmonds.
Appears the average cost of removal is about 15-1800 (600sq ft).
Now the next question is… HOW much damage is typical UNDER the popcorn??? How much are people paying to have someone come in and repair and paint the ceiling after the popcorn is removed?
Justin,
I just read the comments through again. Read them carefully as a couple of people had the same contractor remove the popcorn and leave the ceilings in order. One quoted $2,000 for $800 square feet for the after removal work. One had it all inclusive with drywayy mudding only. Both were pleased with the results and have the contractor names in the comment.
See comment #40
If I were you, I’d call commenter #60 had have a chat about what he normally finds under the popcorn.
Commenter #54 Offered some photos. I’ll email her and try to get them for you and post them here.
Justin,
The email I sent for th ephotos to comemnter 54 bounced back. I have a client who I think removed popcorn ceilings recently. I’ll email them and try to get some before and after photos. No one had any horror stories in the comments up there, so you should be fine. Let us know how it goes.
Justin, there are to ways to get an Idea how much work is to be performed after popcorn removal.
For Sheetrock look kitty corner across you ceiling like you were looking at the Horizon, if you see waves that’s a pretty good indicator
that you have a bad tape and mud job.
Another is probing the popcorn with a small nail, if it goes way in without hitting Sheetrock you have issues and it will cost more to remove and repair.
if you have lath and plaster and you see something like a bowing
or cracks check your wallet, plastering is more of an art and repairs
cost bucks.
I hope this helps you,
Tony
I have noticed lately that sometimes when homeowners remove the acoustic material themselves they will sometimes not completely remove the light fixture but instead mask off the baseand remove the ceiling material up to it. This can present a problem in the future should you change fixtures as not all light fixture bases are the same size. Also if the ceiling contains asbestos (some jurisdictions allow homeowners to remove their own asbestos ceilings) the home will still contain asbestos which might present a problem if uncovered during a sale IMO.
Good point! I have to say this is the best post I have ever written. There’s a wealth of knowledge in the comments section. Thank you everyone for your contributions here.
Tony Chase should definitely have his own blog. Call me Tony, I’ll set you up so that your name Hyperlinks to a place that advertises you better. I’d sure call you. I like your style and would be more than happy to help you hyperlink better via this thread. 206-910-1000
Hello everyone,
I live near the Raleigh area of North Carolina. My wife and I just bought a 2K sq foot home filled with popcorn ceilings. We had it tested and it came up with 2% asbestos, which unfortunately leaves us in a bind, due to many of the reasons list here.
1. Now we have to disclose it, effectively reducing the value of our home by at least 10K.
2. It’s ugly.
We’ve contacted contractors, and the prices varied. Absolutely every single one of them had no problem with the fact that the ceilings contained asbestos and were more than willing to remove it for us, which we found surprising.
Are we as owners over reacting to the dangers of this material?
Also, I guess you folks have it lucky in the Seattle area, because the 2 abatement companies in our area quoted us at $7.5 a square foot, so you can see why we are struggling.
Just to have the popcorn removed (by the abatement people) would cost us $15K. That’s a heck of a lot of money to shell out. Money we don’t have.
So let me throw this scenario out there for everyone:
What if we had a regular contractor that we trusted remove it, then had the place washed, painted(everything), floors sanded, and the one carpet removed, AND the HVAC systems cleaned.
Would we still need to be concerned?
Are we over reacting to this whole thing?
If we did the above, couldn’t we just have the air tested to see if it was contaminated? If it was, does anyone know what it would cost to have someone come in and clean up the air?
Thanks in advance
Jason,
The whole reason for Abatement Contractors is we take on risk.
we contain the work, we run air monitoring that we in my state must keep for thirty five years after the project is done. In the event we
go out of business the Washington state dept of l&I keeps them.
Regular contractors that take on asbestos rarely place any engineering controls at all on the job, they dont like to use water,
and they do not perform air monitoring on their personnel or
inside or outside of the area they are working on. then they unlawfully put it into the waste stream of your town.
(something you have cradle to grave responsibility for)
The biggest issue is risk, we carry insurance for our work where a GC
does not, they tend to have a attitude that they dont care about the persons that work for them, and they can be replaced.
They also see a quick buck by offering half the cost, we call them
rip and skip artists. if something goes bad they more often than not
say they didn’t know it was there, that you did not tell them it was asbestos so its all your fault, they were just a very concerned contractor and you duped Them.
The sad part is they dont monitor thier workers so who knows what the exposure to them is. so thirty years down the road this guy gets sick and he has no help.
We Abatement contractors know how many fibers per cc was in the air Outside of thier mask.
this is not to say all abatement contractors are good ones, we have rouge contractors that do the work wrong or rip folks off.
I would like to offer a couple of Ideas for you.
First. check with your local air pollution board or department of ecology to see if you can file notices and do the work yourself.
You will find they are more than happy to share information plus
If you can do it yourself you can do the job for much less money.
I would hazard to guess about ten grand or more.
but check first and if they let you be sure to file a notice
that’s a biggie, you can then take that notice and lawfully dispose of it.
Also check with your local Labor and industries, you may have OSHA
and some will let you enlist the help of friends and family as long
as you dont pay them for the work.
If that fails see if you can wait until the off season that is December
thru end of may. abatement contractors like to give their family nice Christmas gifts as much as anybody. and dont just take a square ft price, Haggle with them!
There are lots of reasons not to have a general contractor do this work. but I am not here to scare you, look around the web,
see just how big this issue is. and then trust your heart.
Thanks Tony. And get me that link! You are too valuable of a resource to remain “anonymous”.
Tony,
Can 1% asbestos be removed by the homeowner? I thought I read somewhere that 1% asbestos did not require the same procedure. What’s the highest you have seen? Seems to me the average is 4%.
Hi Ardell,
one percent asbestos means that it is asbestos, if you find
one percent in one spot you can be sure that it is in other
places at a higher or lower percent.
Whoever sampled it should do a composite sample, that is done
by taking a small sample from at least three areas and mixing the samples into one bag as you take them.
This gives a much better Idea of what you have, chances are it will
be 2% or higher.
Yet another thing is your lab may have found trace amounts of
asbestos in the sample, The labs will sometimes be on the safe side and call it one percent because it is so close.
Something was found there, it may have been as simple as someone not cleaning the tool they used to sample really hot popcorn.
or even a bit of the wall mud between the Sheetrock was hot.
The highest I have ever seen was about 15%
A homeowner in Washington state can remove popcorn in their own home regardless what it tests at, but If you find amosite asbestos
have a abatement contractor do it, we have issues with that stuff
even with all the gear we have.
I can give you a link to my current site but we are still polishing it.
Tony
In regards to my last post, any homeowner in washington state can remove their own popcorn, but they must file a notice prior to the work. you can file in the morning and start that same day but you
must file. that gives you a paper trail and allows you to lawfully dispose of the waste.
Thanks for your response Tony. Yes, we finally got an abatement contractor to do it for less than some of the othersz($3 per foot). They came recommended by the lab that tested our stuff, and he communicated a sound procedure.
(We heard different things from different (non-abatement) people, and I’ll tell you what - scary.
The puzzling thing, even from Tony, is the suggestion that I do it myself. How am I going to do it myself? I don’t have the necessary gear to contain those fibers in the air. Isn’t that why we would hire you abatement people?
Anyway, the story is simple. If you have popcorn in your house, and you want it removed, AND you are going to remove it one way other other. GET IT TESTED.
No matter what.
And have abatement pro’s get it out of your house, not contractors. The health risk to you and the environment are much too high.
Jason,
I am happy for you that you found a capable abatement contractor at a good price. here in Washington our Puget sound clean air will
allow home owners to do the work on their own, you brought up a good point.
How can a home owner do it themselves? truth be know its a gamble,
they may, and many have, caused more problems doing it on thier own than if they use a contractor.
Its very hard overhead work, not just anybody can do it, that’s
why I always recommend if they file the notices with DOE ( department of ecology) or with say Puget sound clean air in the Puget sound area of Washington state and follow the advice they give.
Its best you take on a very small area like a closet or a small hallway.
use engineering controls, ventilate outside, use amended water,
(soap and warm water) dont get it so wet that its going to drop the Sheetrock as well. be sure to contain the area you are working in.
use drop cloths (the more th better)
and try to get a good clean scrape.
The big issue is have I done it right?
Here’s how you know,
First, did you have a pre abatement sample done? did you use drops inside of your work area and have bagged up ALL the popcorn in your area of work without spreading it all over the place?
Second, did you bag out the waste without smears and popcorn hanging on the outside of the bag to dry and become airborne?
Did you not leave a trail through your home to the truck you are going to haul it in?
Did you use a hepa filtered mask and bag up you clothing or Tyvek
(Tyvek is called a moon suit by many.) if you or your wife wash the clothing you used and placed it your dryer, is like a super particle accelerator, you cant see it but its going all over the place
Third, The True way to know, did you mist water and wet wipe every level surface in your home after you removed the asbestos? have you Had post abatement or clearance sampling? the lab will tell you if you have met the clearance criteria. did you lock down your work area with encapsulant?
( that’s what keeps fibers stuck to surfaces inside the work area.)
So here’s the rub, yes you can do it yourself in some states,
Asbestos fibers cannot be seen by the human Eye, so did you do a good job? if you dont do air sampling you wont know.
That’s why we have Abatement contractors, you pay them to do it correctly, use third party laboratories, have Trained people.
The difference between a contractor and abatement contractor is night and day.
A contractor wont do it right because they are not certified by your state to remove Asbestos. An Abatement contractor has vastly more experience with removal Plus has all the right gear to do it correctly.
A homeowner is following directions like putting a puzzle together,
its hoping you did it right and that you have not contaminated your
home worse than it was before you started.
Many have done it on their own and done a great job, but if you dont use a third party lab after you are done you really dont know for sure.
Hi all - what a wealth of information this site has become! I am about to purchase a 1950’s home in the Houston area. The only downfall is the horrible popcorn texture on the WALLS! The ceilings were lucky enough to escape this horrible act. I thought I would just be able to do it myself, never even considering the thought of asbestos in the texture!
Can anyone recommend a company that will remove, repair and paint the walls, who is located in the Houston, TX area?
Thanks!
Toni
Tony, What kind of air monitoring is done outside the work area during the removal and also for after the work is done? I had popcorn removed by a licensed abatement contractor (per WA L&I) and did not see any monitoring outside the work area. The area was completely sealed up with plastic sheeting, so I could not really see what was going on inside. Should they be abvle to give me copies of their monitoring records? Thanks. –North End Seattle
ABC,
The Company that did the work will have copies of the air monitoring they performed. the samples should have gone to a third party laboratory for analysis
A Pre Abatement sample, worker samples, an outside area
sample and a hepa exhaust sample. the outside area will be done every other day as well as the hepa (the machine that blew the inside
area outside after it was filtered)
The first outside area should have been done the first day that they went into abatement.
Ask your contractor for a certificate of completion as well as a close
out packet including air monitoring. this packet will contain copies of
all of the air monitoring as well as copies of the psca and L&I notices.
You can also ask for a copy of the waste manifest. this will let you know in what EPA approved landfill it will rest in.
most contractors will cheerfully give you this data, however, give them time to gather it, sometimes it takes weeks before the hard copies of the air monitoring as well as a hard copy of your waste manifest. most contractors try to get a truckload of waste before they turn it in to keep from doing to many trips to the transfer station
or the landfill.
if you have had a three day abatement you should get two copies of
your area samples.
Take care,
Tony
ABC,
You will also have you clearance sample in the results, they cannot take down the containment without the results from this.
Tony
Great advice Tony, as a finisher I am always amazed at the home owner who tries to save a buck while exposing a day laborer, a contractor and their employees, themselves, their children and loved ones, their community, potential future home owner, and the environment to asbestoses.
There are many drywall finishers that got into the business in the fifties and sixties that paid a heavy price due to their exposure to asbestos. Asbestos is not something for the homeowner to fool with and best left to a professional.
Tony,
Thanks for the insight. I’ll follow up as you suggest. By the way, what is the actual air “sample” that is tested? Is it a filter pad? Or it is an actual sample of air in a bottle or canister? On my job, they used a machine in the containment area, but nothing (that I saw, at least) outside the containment area. I tried to find out from PSCAA what (as an “educated” consumer) I was to look for in the licensed abatement contractor’s scope of work (i.e. specific monitoring protocol) and they were of no real help. It really would be great if they (or some other knowledgable source) would post a sample scope of work. Something more specific than “remove XX sq ft of popcorn ceiling in accordance with all regulations.” How is someone supposed to know if the “right” procedures were followed?
ABC
The air sample in a very condensed description is a known volume
of air that is passed thru a sample Cassette. the sample cassette
will be black or clear in color with a screen at the top near the neck.
The sample is then capped and taken to a third party laboratory
where the laboratory tech (niosh 582 trained) counts the number of fibers on the screen with the aid of a microscope. they count all of the fibers that are of a certain size, sometimes rug fibers, dusts,
and fiberglass is in the air and it will throw the sample off.
I am an ahera project designer, however for me to write a whole work plan here I would be at it for some time.
The best way for a home owner to find out exactly how the work is done requires an homeowner to sit down or at least spend some time
talking to the contractor you intend to hire.
If he cant tell you how its done you may need a different abatement contractor.
Least I forget, The machine you heard in the Regulated area
is called a high volume air pump.(high flow)
one of the men that works in the containment will wear a low volume air pump, (low flow)that sample is taken in the breathing zone of the worker that is doing the dirtiest task.
Wow! What a wealth of information! My home has popcorn ceilings that I intend to remove. Fortunately, my home was built in 1988 so i don’t have an asbestos problem.
I wanted to know if I could dry scrape the ceilings, leaving a little texture behind for a sort of knockdown look. Thanks to all the information provided I see I can do just that. Great thread and a special thanks to redmondjp!
May I ask where you live “the Pup”? This post has had a very “long tail” and I’m wondering about reach. Are you from the Seattle Area?
The pup,
Sample the popcorn before you dry scrape it. also test the sheetrock mud, why? because asbestos is still being placed into even brand new homes. a dry scrape is the best way I know for a fiber release.
I kid you not, I have found hot popcorn in homes that were built in the early 1990s. a cheap sample is worth the peace of mind.
There is a lof of information here, but I don’s see someof my major concerns addressed. We bought a house in Boise, Idaho in 1976. It was built in 1975 and has popcorn ceilings everywhere except in the kitchen, laundry room and bathrooms. This means that over 1000 square feet of ceiling are affected. First of all, if you have samples lab tested and they are positive for asbestos, are you required to remove it immediately? And if so, and you absolutely can’t afford to do so, what are your options? I am a 59 year old single grandmother that has been raising my grandson for over ten years now. Because the knowledge of the problem didn’t surface for so long, is there any kind of government program that can help with this? If so, how would I find out? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
I do not believe any state has a requirement that popcorn ceilings be removed. If they do, I haven’t heard of it. Take the test in a place your grandson does not normally go, like your bedroom closet, and get it tested. Would appreciate your posting the test results here. If you do that, I will post any info I can find regarding that test result and also get Tony back to talk about your level of asbestos.
Gosh, what a thread! I’m looking for some bottom line dollar figures, and here is what I have discerned from this conversation. Please tell me if I am wrong:
Non-asbestos ceiling acoustic (popcorn) removal - roughly $3 sf
Retexture and paint ceiling - roughly $2 sf
What do y’all think?
I’m in Austin, which is cheaper than the rest of the country for work, but the most expensive spot in Texas.
Frances,
First off ardell is right, you do not have to remove anything in your home if you test for it and find it contains asbestos.
however, if it is asbestos lagging or furnace material you need to find
an abatement contractor.
If the ceilings have been painted and nothing is falling down you dont have anything to worry about.
for that matter even if it is not painted You have nothing to fear if it is not falling down.
let me know what kind of shape it is in and I will try to steer you in the right direction without killing your wallet.
Don’t let anyone Buffalo you into removing it by saying you have to.
It is patently untrue.
Auntie em,
get three bids from abatement contractors and then check on the one you want.
Then after the popcorn is off get three drywall contractors to bid the fixing of it. same drill, check on thier references.
I cant impart enough how important that is.
also do some fishing by phone, think about what you want to ask them, write it down and gently stick to the point when you ask them.
Here is what they will want to know.
1. how high are your ceilings? the higher they are the more it costs.
2. is it encapsulated (painted) if it is very heavy it dont come off easy and it costs more to abate.
3. how many square feet do you have? take a tape, figure it out.
(length X height) if you have a large amount the square foot price should go down a bit.
4. check your closets, if it is in them tell them so, you dont want them
to ask for a change order (more money) if you have it in them be sure the contractor knows about it before he gives you the numbers.
hope this helps,
Tony
Auntie em,
Been a long day, it is length X width, not length X height!
Tony
I now know more about popcorn ceilings than I thought possible!! Are there ways to cover the ceiling? Beadboard over it or possibly cover it with joint compound?
I have checked with Puget Sound Air and they have no problem with you covering the popcorn with anything. Bead board, decorative ceiling tiles, plywood, whatever you can come up with. My neice used joint compound in Fresno, California.
Tony Chase came to our home for an estimate just recently and we feel he is very honest and upfront and has fantastic advice and is very knowledgeable. Tony looked at our ceilings and since we had painted over them, they are sealed with the paint (however paint can make it harder to remove) and they are in good condition Tony said why do anything. He could have said they needed down and here is the cost but didn’t. We did have the popcorn tested. So if they are in bad shape, stuff falling on the floor have Tony take a look at them.
Arlene
There is a great forum for this at http://www.popcornforum.com. My husband and I used all this info to do our scraping/smoothing ourselves. Life without popcorn is a life worth living :).
Thanks for the link Amy. I enjoyed the videos. Great addition to our growing info.
Jason, who did you get in the Raleigh, NC area to quote $3/sf for asbestos abatement? I haven’t seen any estimates nearly that low. Did you have the work done, and are you pleased with the results?
My house has popcorn celings with 4% asbestos…all of the ceiling is in good condition and painted, except for the ceiling in the pantry.
A leaking pipe had to be repaired in the ceiling above the pantry and all the popcorn in about 1 and 1/2 foor square area fell off and is probably still in the pantry. Fibers were probably released and then spread through out the house every time the pantry door was opened or closed.
This was about 7 months ago and at that time we did not know that the ceilings contained asbestos. Is it best to remove all the popcorn throughout the house so this does not happen again? Would a contractor just work on the pantry? How do I know if the pantry or the rest of the house has been contaminated?
“1. Now we have to disclose it, effectively reducing the value of our home by at least 10K.”
Jason, being that you are a Raleigh native, I will chime in. Unless you are an agent, you (the seller) does not have to disclose a single thing. Just check the no representation box. If your house was built prior to 1978 (I think that is the year) you have to provided the buyer with a lead based pain addendum but that is it.
Locally, since I know the Raleigh area, you have local laws to disclose if you live close to RDU about the airport noise but I am 60 miles east so we do not have to worry about RDU junk.
Popcorn burned,
It would be helpful if you could tell us your city and state. There is some mention of “air monitoring” up in comments 82 and shortly thereafter.
I am in California, Orange County area..
If any one, any where has had a similar experience and has had to make a decision…
Ardell..this blog has been the best source I have found for other home owners experiences with pop corn ceilings..I don’t like to just rely on contractors or the official web sites.
Thank you.
Just want to thank everyone for their informative posts. I’m debating tackling this project in my condo and I’ve found some great information in this thread.
I’m pretty clear on how to remove the popcorn from the ceiling but the issue of asbestos does concern me. I live in NY and construction on my building started in late 1989 and completed in 1990. The building engineer assures me no asbestos was used. How likely is it that asbestos was used during in my building?
Also, my building was constructed using pre-cast concrete slabs and currently the grooves of the joints are visible on the ceiling. This makes the ceiling somewhat uneven. Does anyone have any tips on how to cover the expansion joints and even out the ceiling?
Thanks!
I am the owner of ExtremeMakeoverProos.com…we charge $1.65 per sf fpr popcorn ceiling removal. We charge another .90 cents per square foot to retexture and paint…thats $2.50 total investment. If you need it tested for asbestos that will cost about 430 bucks. If asbestos is contained in your ceilings you’re looking at 2-3 times the cost I just quoted. Check out our website if you have any other questions or our Blog.. http://www.extrememakeoverpros.com/blog
WOW! That is expensive to have asbestos testing done if you are charging $430.00. We just had ours tested at a major Seattle lab and I believe it was about $35.00. We found that having painted over the popcorn when we removed a spot for the testing it was actually easier to remove. It was a like removing icing from a cake. If you use a little water not much because you do not want to ruin the underneath board it should be even easier to take off. Also as I said before in a previous Post Puget Sound Air does not care what you cover it with sheetrock or bead board or putty or tin tiles. So the fact it is painted should not increase the cost of removal too much more. We are going to have one room sheet rocked over. If it goes great we may do the rest of the basement.
Once it is painted over it is contained and if it is in great shape no reason to spend the money doing anything to it unless you really want to. Our reason for doing the one room is kids bounced balls and knocked the popcorn off in a couple of spots and roof leaked discoloring the ceiling so it looks like someone tinkled on the ceiling.
Arlene
I am considering putting in an offer on a 1963 house with about 1000sf of popcorn ceiling in Greenwood. Not sure what is best; Should I get the popcorn ceiling tested for asbestos and then have it removed or skip the test and just bring in a drywall contractor and cover it up? Am I taking a risk in “knowing” that there is asbestos in the ceiling.
Look at the Form 17 Seller Disclosure Statement before making the offer. It may already inform you that the ceiling has asbestos, even if you don’t test it.
Ardell,
The hazards box on the Form 17 (lead, asbestos, etc) is marked unkown. My concern is having to disclose in the future that the house has asbestos, where as if I never test it, I can say it’s unknown.
If I have it tested and professionally removed, do I have to disclose this in the future?
If your offer is accepted, I would have the ceiling tested for asbestos during the inspection process. Maybe by showing a report that the ceiling contains asbestos, you can get the seller to contribute to the cost of its removal as part of the inspection negotiation. Have the original inspector get the sample and then call for a 2nd inspection to give you 5 more days for the response time, giving you time to get the lab results and a bid for removal.
If possible, have it removed before you move in. As to needing to disclose that the popcorn ceilings were removed, I think that’s a plus and not a negative. Whether or not you have to, may depend on how long you live there before you sell it. You have to explain a yes answer but not a no answer. Any home built prior to 1978 requires the blanket disclosure regarding lead based paint, etc. That you removed the popcorn puts you ahead of other homes built similarly and in the same timeframe.
Does it cost more to have popcorn ceilings removed if it has been painted over two or three times? One contractor tells me it is more difficult to get the water to soak in and so it will be more costly per square foot that if the ceilings had not been painted.
Yes Popcorn burned. It is my understanding that painted popcorn costs more to remove and is much more difficult. Tony addressed this briefly in comment #95.
We painted over our popcorn ceilings and it was a piece of cake to remove the big patch we did for testing. We did not even use water. It just slid off like icing on a cake.
You bring up a good point, Arlene. It probably depends on what kind of paint was used and how water-soluble that paint is.
Hello Popcorn removal teams!!!
ok, so this is our deal….we are flipping a home and the home is 1700 sq ft has the popcorn ceilings and we are debating whether or not to attempt doing this ourselves OR paying someone to do the work.
QUESTION - is the removal very tough to do??? since we have not done this before and I know some say yes, some say no….we are not sure??
received initial quote for $1500, now have gotten it down to $800 that includes removal of the popcorn, float out the joints , seal your perimeters, and retexture.
IS this a great price and not worth even taking the time to SEE if we should do ourselves or not?
All comments are appreciated
John,
For that much sq ft I would have them do it for $800 it’s a great price.
It;s not worth you doing it yourself even though it is pretty easy to do - just messy and dusty.
Jim
Okay John tell us all who agreed to do it for $800.00 what company are you using so we can have ours done too. We have about total 1000 square feet.but will probably only do part of that.
Thanks
Arlene
In Phoenix, let me know your name and I can add it to the listing of people in the neighborhood that want to have theirs done…negiotiating a price for everyone now !
John
Arlene,
sometimes popcorn that is encapsulated will come off pretty easy,
what causes the problem is if it is painted many times with latex
or if it is painted with enamel. yet one other issue is if the popcorn was sprayed on a porous surface.
some are as follows:
lath and plaster, unless the skim coat is even you find many divots and cracks that require the use of small toothbrushes to clean out
after the bulk is gone.
Concrete: air entrained concrete is the worst, if it is both encapsulated and sprayed on concrete you have hundreds of little holes full of the stuff.
there are other factors but I don’t want to get to windy.
Regarding an abatement contractor that will do the job for $800.00!
I have never heard of a price that low for 1200 sf of popcorn.
Removal alone is never that cheap, let alone including including Repair. that in itself can run over three bucks a ft.
do yourself a favor and check to make sure that the outfit you are using is a certified abatement contractor.
Perhaps he is and just is very hungry for work, but at that price
it barley covers the costs of of the material’s, disposal & air monitoring.
I think Tony we will just go with your original advice. The ceilings are in good condition like you said. If we do anything in the removal of the popcorn it will be you doing it. I thought $800 was a little too low.
HAPPY NEW YEAR every one.
I would like to address asbestos pricing nation wide.
Depending what your state regulations may be the contractors
have to adhere to them. case in point is California vs. Washington
State. here in Washington we have to build a full negative pressure enclosure, three stage decontamination unit and a two stage waste out. Then our Personnel must don full face supplied air respirators
and a air line hooked to an air compressor or air bottles.
In California they don’t have to wear full face supplied air, so whats the difference? it takes about twice the time to work while dragging an air line, the decontamination procedure is more complex, and
the mobility of the personnel is restricted. California allows its
workers to wear unencumbered half or full face respirator’s without an outside air source.(no air Lines)
all states must meet or exceed federal OSHA guidelines in order to
do asbestos abatement. The minimum is a half face respirator.
California has chosen to follow the minimum guide lines for abatement.
Here in Washington State we have our own labor and industries that
follows WISHA,(Washington industrial safety and health act)
our laws are more stringent than OSHA regarding worker safety, so everything takes longer to do.
Time is money, the more stringent the laws the more money it costs.
So when you look at prices for abatement you need to find out what
is required in your state, you may find that it can be much cheaper or much more expensive pursuant to your local laws regarding Asbestos Abatement.
Does anyone know who will do the asbestos testing in Springfield, MO.? Our house was built in 1985. But after reading the trail, I want to be sure.
ARLENE
Joseph is his name and he has done excellent job, just superb! he is by himself but really good. removed the popcorn, resealed the joints, perimeter and knock down texture
480-458-5404 Joseph
tell him John gave you his number!
That is a Phoenix, AZ. phone number? I live in Springfield, MO. and need to know where I can have it tested.
KENDRA
YES, it is in Phoenix as the message was also directed to ARLENE in Phoenix and not your question
My friend is in a panic. Her neighbor just found out ceiling is asbestos..same builder, same time period. So she has questions.
1) if she sells does she have to disclose that her ceiling is probably asbestos? She hasnt tested and doesn’t plan on it
2) How dangerous is it, if she occasionally has dropped pieces not major just there have been a few?
3) Is having a ceiling fan on an asbestos ceiling a bad idea? Is it spreading dangersous asbestos particles every time she turns it on?
Mtlk Terrace, WA resident
Normally I see something on the Form 17 that says “Popcorn ceiling may contain asbestos”.
Most home inspectors have an exclusion in their contract from identifying asbestos, since it cannot be seen, so the only way for a person to know is if the buyer agent points it out, or if it is in the form 17.
It surprises me that everyone doesn’t know that homes built prior to 1978 likely have lead based paint and asbestos. Clearly people buy these homes every day knowing these things. I have had a couple of people in 17 years fully address and remove all lead based paint or asbestos, or encapsulate it. But most do not.
I’ll try to find the link when I have time, but the removal process apparently isn’t that much different if it has or doesn’t have asbestos in it. The disposal is different. But as long as you don’t disturb the stuff it’s not really that big of a deal.
Connie,
If just a small amount falls its easy to clean up. I would suggest a
small hepa filtered air scrubber. they are getting less and less
expensive.
there are also some pretty quality hepa filtered vacume cleaners on the market. unless she has had allot fall there should be no big problem with the ceiling fan.
if she has large areas starting to delaminate that is another story.
I am based out of mountlake terrace and Everett but handle work anywhere in the state. I can look at it for free anytime.
Tony Chase
206 793-1321
Ardell, I am an AHERA Building inspector. I look at allot of homes
for people prior to them purchasing homes. sometimes a
regular building inspector will point out things that he thinks might be asbestos. more often than not he will not because it is not his
area of expertise.
Sadly many of the issues arise after the home is purchased and the
new owner wants to renovate. I do many inspections for those type of projects as well as the clean up after they have made messes.
dont be scared that abatement is to costly. its much less than a plumber or a general contractor in most cases.
The only time it gets bad is when someone removes asbestos popcorn, sheet goods,and worst of worst boilers and furnaces.
stuff gets scattered all over and it can become a big project to clean it up.
Never do a renovation without at least talking to a guy like me first.
the wallet you save would be your own.
Tony Chase and his crew just took down the popcorn in three bedrooms and a hallway for us this month and they did a great job and Tonys crew were wonderful. Our ceilings were in good condition but decided since the rooms needed painting might as well do it. Tony also has a person he can suggest to touch up/paint and finish the ceilings. We hired Rick of Star Ceilings and they could start the week following the popcorn removal. So in less than two weeks it was all done. Two days to do the popcorn removal and three days time wise to do the finishing work. Just a couple of hours each day on finishing the ceilings though. Not whole days.
I suggest to everyone to start moving everything out of the rooms now if you are planning on doing this it makes it much easier and a good time to de-clutter. The hardest part will be putting the “stuff” back in the rooms and deciding what to keep/get rid of.
Thank you again Tony and Rick it is good to have it done.
Les and Arlene
Bellevue, WA.
Arlene,
Can you give us more detail as to square footage and cost. Often people are faced with “should we buy this home WITH popcorn ceilings or this one without them”. Knowing the cost after all was said and done can help a lot of people with these kind of home choices.
Plus buying the one with popcorn ceilings and then removing them will likely end up with a better return when and if they ever sell. I would venture to say that the return is between 3% and 5% of purchase price. How do costs stack up against that return?
P.S. that 3% to 5% increase in value assumes main living areas and master bedroom had popcorn removed, and not just children’s bedrooms.
The rooms we did was a master bedroom and two childrens bedrooms and a hallway that went from the end of where the first bedroom starts to end of the last bedroom. Yes, it does cost money but in the long run it makes it better if you do sell. Or makes it easier for the kids to sell if we aren’t around to do it.
Over all it just now looks nicer. One person said it was 375 feet total.
It was around $2,700.00 (including tax) total for the popcorn removal and repair and painting of the ceilings. For us to do it was just too much. It does come off on our ceilings anyway, pretty easy but for safety/health let the experts do it. Our neighbor let her husband do the same amount as ours and he now has issues with his health/sinuses since then from breathing the dust he inhaled. We were able to stay home while this was going on because we have a split entry home so we could just stay downstairs and they seal off the upstairs vents so it can’t get in the duct system and they seal off the hallway too so it can’t get out in the other rooms.
It was a lot of work moving the rooms stuff out but we feel now it was worth it. But then we had a lot of stuff in the rooms. I would use both companies again that I previously mentioned. I had the two main abatement companies come out and decided on Tony Chase. Tony’s guys are nice and would help with a heavy item if it needs to be moved when they get there.
Hope this helps.
Arlene
great thread! I’m buying a condo built in1979. Im going to have the ceiling tested but am wondering if all the labs are affiliated with the abaitment companies. I want to get an unbiased/independent test result, not one that comes with a backside handshake.
The lab I used and the abatement company were absolutely not in cahoots together. The labs do have a list of abatement companies but you pick not them. There are only a few abatement companies that I know of and the two I know of are very good and reputable.
We used Tony Chase. He is professional and so is his crew and he is good at what he does.
Arlene
Labs are usually pretty reliable. I’ve never heard of one being in cahoots with the removal contractors.
Labs are third party, they have to be. they are also monitored
by an industry wide testing that takes random samples from
ones the lab has done and re tests them.
All labs will have a list of contractors to use, its up to you to
call, meet with, and chose the one you feel good about using.
I have a new website affenv.net I dont charge for advice, I figure
if you ask questions you are on the right track to making your
small part of the world a better place to live.
No one should have to pay for thier safety. so that’s why I dont mind taking the calls I get from all over America. caring about your indoor air quality is a good thing. I get no back slaps, paychecks from it,
I just do it on my nickle.
Tony
I scraped a “popcorn ceiling” off the ceiling of a 2-car garage in Punta Gorda Isles Florida. I wore only a particle mask because I had no idea that it contained 2-3% chrysolite asbestos until I got it tested. I hope my 2-days of fairly intense exposure will not negatively affect my health. What most surprises me is that most Punta Gorda Isles cookie-cutter homes built in the period 1970 to 1978 all have the same 2-3% chrysolite asbestos popcorn ceilings spray-painted throughout the house. However, you cannot find any information online and most of the locals are completely unaware of the existence or danger of the asbestos problem.
MarkusC,
One of the reasons this issue bothers me so much is because there is so much talk about “full disclosure” and yet there is little done in the area of asbestos. Most home inspectors exclude asbestos as an issue they inspect for or report on. Hence homes are passed in escrow from one to another with no mention of the asbestos in the popcorn ceiling.
I understand that is because you can’t SEE asbestos, but why aren’t tests done the way there are radon tests done in areas that have radon issues?
Given popcorn ceilings were more popular prior to 1978, I think any homeowner should assume that a popcorn ceiling contains asbestos. This thread on Rain City Guide is likely the best source of that information on the internet, and that is nothing to brag about, that is something to say WHY? about.
I would like to thank Tony Chase for all of his hard work in the comments portion of this thread. Tony has done more for providing information regarding popcorn ceilings, via his comments here, than anyplace I have seen on the web.
Thank you Tony, on behalf of RCG and our readers.
I am wondering if a light spray of new texture over the cottage cheese, then doing a knock down finish wouldnt work. Instead of having to spray and scrape the old down. I would like to try this in a small room, say the bathroom. On a painted cottage cheese ceiling, I dont see why a light spray of texture and then knock down finish wouldnt work. I may be a genius for thinking of this…!
what do you mean by knock down finish? sorry I guess I am a dunce.
you can however cover the popcorn ceilings with what ever you want to. puget sound air said so when I called them.
I dont know if I can post a link, but here is a pic of knock down finish, you could also google it if this doesnt work and see it.
http://www.bradpatrickinc.com/Textures%20Body%20Frame.htm
So, you asked someone and you can cover a popcorn ceiling with more texture?
bbb,
I can’t help but think that removing asbestos once and for all, if your ceiling contains asbestos, is the better remedy since both are a lot of work.
That said, I believe every room in my house has a knockdown ceiling. They were extremely poplular in Florida, though not here so much. So perhaps it depends on where you are.
We just recently had Tony Chase and crew take down the popcorn in three bedrooms and a hallway and I am glad we made the decision to do so.
Was worth it. However if you want to go over it with sheet rock or tin ceiiling squares or texture you can. I called Puget Sound Air and asked them. Since it was about 900.00 to do the touch up repair and painting of the ceilings (not the popcorn removal that was additional and different company) afterwards I think it would be about as much to do something else anyway unless you save the labor and do it yourself. I always look at it this way unless you are really handy dandy leave it to the experts if they mess up you know who has to make it right.
But I would absolutely have Tony’s crew again if we do the downstairs ceilings. I agree in the long run the right thing to do is have it removed and let the experts do it. It took us a lot of thinking it over to finally decide to just bite the bullet and do it. If we ever sell it will have been a good decision.
well house was built in 92 so i doubt asbestos? Plus the living room is two story angled. So I am just figuring the cheapest way to get rid of the cottage cheese is a spray over.
How to tell if asbestos is in the popcorn. Scrape off a wee bit which contains some of the popcorn kernels. Simply rub them between your finger and thumb.
If it is just think drywall compound then it will turn to dust. If it contains beads of styrofoam then you will end up with the small piece of plastic foam (as if you had torn up some foam packaging material). If there is some papery stuff left behind, then you probably have asbestos.
Also, if the ceiling was done in the past twenty years or so then it is about 99% certain that there isn’t any asbestos present.
Not scientific, but still works rather well. Also, always wear a good quality mask.
If you are SURE it isn’t asbestos then go ahead and wet it with a sprayer, let set for a while and rewet. You will reach a saturation point where the texture will come off rather easily (unless someone added paint when they put it on). Any fibers left sticking up from the wallboard (drywall) can be easily sanded with a drywall sander, one the drywall is TOTALLY dry. This is not easy work and takes time and sweat. Now you begin to understand why we contractors are so expensive……
One last tidbit: you cannot just keep on spraying texture or paint over an imperfection and expect the imperfection to fillup and match the surrounding area. Won’t work on a car or a ceiling because the entire surface just gets thicker. I add this because I have seen people spray on a quarter inch of texture and still have a depression; then they call. Would have saved a lot of money is they had called first, even for advice.
What an incredible blog, thank you for the wealth of information and links. I found this by MSN search “popcorn removal Seattle”.
We need to test ours to see if it contains the nasty stuff. My hunch is yes since built in 1963. Once we get it tested will work on pricing. I will report back.
Our issue isn’t health concern, seeing how we aren’t disturbing the ceiling, but the look and dirtiness of it. Painting popcorn texture is awful and still looks old. Now I’m not sure spending a couple thousand is worth it but will let you know.
Liz,
Thank you for the kudos and we would certainly appreciate it if you do report back for the benefit of all.
Consider that more and more people are removing these and fewer and fewer homes will have them. Clearly going out into the future, the effect on value of your home will increase as people have more options to purchase homes without popcorn ceilings in your given area.
When everyone has them, people will buy homes with them. When only 2 out of five homes on market have them, those 2 may be the ones left behind in weaker market conditions.
Great thread. Lots of extremely useful information. One question that I saw brought up but not touched on, which was homes in the 50’s. I just purchased a home built in ‘58 which has the “pops”. It is starting to fall in small places, mostly higher humidity areas (kitchen and bathroom) so it’s going to have to go (which it would have to anyway since it is uuugggly). I’m going to be taking a sample to get tested, but am wondering when did they start the widespread use of asbestos as a binder?
Pete,
Popcorn ceilings became very popular in the late 50s. I’m pretty sure asbestos was used as binder from the time they came out until that substance was banned from use in the late 70s.
How exactly do you take a sample? Do I just scrape off some of the ceiling so the dust is captured or actually take a chunk?
Per Seattle Asbestos Test, LLC (where I plan to send the sample) the instructions say “Place the small piece into a clean container (for example, a 35 mm film canister, small glass or plastic vial, or high quality re-sealable plastic bag). Tightly seal the container after the sample is in it. Cover the hole created by removing the sample with a small piece of duct tape to prevent further spread of fibers .” I hadn’t exactly planned on cutting a small hole in the ceiling drywall.
Also I haven’t called them yet but their site says to take three samples, for my size house, then in the pricing sections says each sample costs $30 to test. I want to call and verify it’d be $90. I think I’ll just do one sample. My goal is to get this done in the next week since I’m driving thru Lynnwood Thursday and can drop the sample off.
Liz,
I was trying to scan through the comments to find test sample advice. Someone said you need “a teaspoonful” and given you know your are taking it down, I wouldn’t be skimpy on the sample size.
I agree that one sample should be sufficient. Not likely they used different material in different places.
Would appreciate your letting us know how long it takes to get the results. Though I think it’s save to assume you have asbestos, the % would be interesting. I’m going to take a guess at it being 4% or so.
Liz,
all you need to do is get yourself a zip lock baggy, dampen the area you are going to take the sample from and scrape a dime to quarter size amount into the bag and seal it.
The reason for taking three samples is in some cases you may only have trace amounts in some areas and up to 4 or 5% in others.
three samples from different places in your home offers a bit more piece of mind.
don’t cut a hole in your ceiling, that is unnecessary unless you plan to remove the Sheetrock as well.
Thanks Tony!
Asbestos test is positive. We dropped the sample off last night to the Seattle Asbestos Test Bellevue lab (which is very poorly marked, they have no sign and aren’t on the company directory) and already got the results!
Our sample was 1 tablespoon and per lab report contained 5% asbestos fibers and 2% non-asbestos fibers.
They recommended Affordable Abatement but we will call a few other places for comparable bids.
Oh, our house is a 1963 rambler near Rose Hill JR High.
We just took our popcorn down this year with Tony Chase crew. He is listed above in other notes. They did a good job. Make sure you have eveyrthing removed out of the rooms first. Start doing the removal when you schedule it. Shut the heat off because they will have the doors open and be in and out. since we have two levels we could be in the bottom part of the house and not have to leave do not know if you will with a rambler. Then we used Star ceiling who came in and did the touch up repairs and painted the ceilings they were quick and available on short notice.
I plan to call Tony and someone from the beginning recommended AFJ Commercial Services. Although, Tony if you want to zip me an e-mail my address is elizabet@lincoln.midcoast.com. I would love to have you come out and look, you’ve been a huge help on this board!
What made you change your mind on having them removed - your earlier blogs say you were just going to live with it? This is definitely not something we had planned to do but as we slowly update the old house it’ll be nice and also you had a good point about resale down the line. My husband isn’t as on board as I am with the removal due to cost.
We’ll ask about leaving. We have a bonus room without popcorn ceilings so was hoping to tarp off and sleep in there. Our goal is to get the popcorn removed, ceilings repaired and painted then walls painted all in one week.
We decid